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Old 02/21/11, 07:21 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Very cool mustang, I couldn't believe it when I heard it was your new car. Way to roll on over to the dark side
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Old 02/21/11, 07:57 AM   #32 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Creeper View Post
UPR double adjustables son. You can do a lot of rear end suspension tuning with those bad boys. No polys though unless you wanna tear the torque boxes. Heim or Spherical bushings.

Same goes gor LCA's, no double polys if that is gonna be driven on the street.

Better yet, he should just dump the UCA's, buy a Panhard bar and Torque arm. Then he'd be set for whatever driving conditions...
That ^^ + some soft strange shocks and hes 10x's stickyer.
No non-stock UCA's. Maximum Motorsports sells only stock Ford replacements because they are designed to give a lot of flex. You will unnecessarily fatigue your torque boxes with anything but stock. Heim joints are bad for UCA's because they don't give the desired path of travel near the extents of their limits.

LCA's are a bit different. MM uses a spherical bushing which they say allows for free articulation while reducing axle wind up. Compliance is not as significant in the LCA's.

I still wouldn't buy UPR for anything other than billet A/C knobs.
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Old 02/21/11, 08:14 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I have never seen damage to the torque boxes from heim or spherical UCA's before. I suppose the stockers wouldnt be as bad in drag racing, but if he ever tries to auto-x or aggressive street drive the rear end has a good chance of binding.

Your right though, Ford put out a 4-link that [I]technically[I] worked with those crappy little rubber bushings, but under aggressive driving with more then stock power, those pieces are gonna get thrashed.
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Old 02/21/11, 08:27 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Wow dude Quality Build!!!! Who did your tig welding and fabing? looks sweet!
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Old 02/21/11, 08:38 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Creeper View Post
I have never seen damage to the torque boxes from heim or spherical UCA's before. I suppose the stockers wouldnt be as bad in drag racing, but if he ever tries to auto-x or aggressive street drive the rear end has a good chance of binding.

Your right though, Ford put out a 4-link that [I]technically[I] worked with those crappy little rubber bushings, but under aggressive driving with more then stock power, those pieces are gonna get thrashed.
Jetsetter has a drift mustang...
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Old 02/21/11, 08:58 AM   #36 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Creeper View Post
I have never seen damage to the torque boxes from heim or spherical UCA's before. I suppose the stockers wouldnt be as bad in drag racing, but if he ever tries to auto-x or aggressive street drive the rear end has a good chance of binding.

Your right though, Ford put out a 4-link that [I]technically[I] worked with those crappy little rubber bushings, but under aggressive driving with more then stock power, those pieces are gonna get thrashed.
I saw a thread on CC where MM had tested it and at the ends of its movement and it didn't take the rear axle through its desired path. Additionally, the axle will need a panhard bar or equivalent to locate it laterally as it will have too much compliance when lightly loaded. However, this also means that the panhard bar and the control arms will be fighting for the roll center, and will fatigue the torque boxes.

Under hard driving the stock rubber bushings will deflect, and they will deflect enough to "generally" prevent bind, which a solid or poly bushing would cause much earlier. I would rather the bushing get "thrashed" than the torque boxes.
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Old 02/21/11, 09:02 AM   #37 (permalink)
 
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And Jack Hidley from MM explaining it:

With a stock Mustang Quadra-Bind rear suspension, the UCAs are the only thing controlling the side to side location of the rear axle. You could argue that the stock rear swaybar adds some rear location control, but its lateral stiffness is nothing compared to the cornering forces involved. With the UCAs removed from the car, it is very easy to move the rear end from side to side 3"-6" by hand.

When you install UCAs with rod ends or spherical bearings in both ends (exact same thing) there is no way for the UCA to change length at all, as the steel on steel joints in the UCA are essentially incompressible. The fact that they can't change length guarantees that the rear axle does not move side to side at all in relation to the chassis. This all seems good except:

Given the geometry of the OEM 4-link rear suspension, the UCAs and LCAs must change length some for the rear suspension to be able to roll and move up and down at the same time. With a geometrically proper suspension geometry, the suspension can assume any combination of roll and ride height without forcing the control arms to change length. An example of this would be the 3-link rear suspension that comes in the S197 Mustangs.

When you have an OEM 4-link Mustang rear suspension geometry with incompressible bushings in all of the control arms, the rear suspension can only move through a certain combination of roll angle and ride height variations. It will not go into certain combinations of ride and roll without metal flexing or bending. If you look at configuration #10 above, you can see how much bind putting one rod end in at one of the four possible locations creates. When you try to roll the chassis at ride height it has 63lbs/in of stiffness, but once you get to 2.5" of roll, it only has a stiffness of 20lbs/in. Compare this to putting a rubber bushing back in the location of the rod end in configuration #4. This configuration only has 11lbs/in of roll stiffness and it doesn't change with roll angle.

If we were to test another configuration with rod ends in all four locations, the roll stiffness would probably be around 150lbs/in.

With incompressible bushings in the UCAs, the rear suspension behaves very unpredictably. This is because the suspension is not capable of allowing the tires to follow the road surface under all conditions of roll and ride height. This causes very unpredictable changes in grip to occur when going over the slightest bump or ripple in the road. For drag racing in a perfectly straight line, on a smooth track, where the rear suspension may barely roll at all from bumps, with tires that have very soft sidewalls that can follow bumps in the track, having rod ends in the UCAs is probably better than using UCAs with stock rubber bushings that will allow a lot of wheel hop. However, under any other circumstances, having rubber bushings in the UCAs is going to make the car have much more predictable rear tire traction.

With respect to Ben's comments: He commented that the rear would step out mid corner during the 1st to 2nd gear shift. This is because the rear suspension has much more roll stiffness than it did stock. The end of the car with more roll stiffness has less grip. Since his rear suspension has more roll stiffness than the front, it loses traction in the middle of the corner when the tires are overloaded by the torque impulse from the shift. I think the chassis movement he feels after wards is the sidewalls of the rear tires flexing back and forth, not really the axle moving sideways in the chassis. If he has a drag oriented rear tire on the car, this will be really bad as they tend to have very soft sidewalls.

Personally, I would install an MM Torque Arm/Panhard Bar and lose the UCAs completely, or a Steeda 5-link or an EVM Tri-link before I used rod ends or polyurethane bushings in the UCAs. Any of these solutions will radically improve the available grip and predictability of the rear suspension.

Why don't you see articles on this subject? The biggest single reason is that rod ended UCAs are cheap and easy to build, so there are a lot of companies making/selling them. This means there are a lot of companies advertising them for sale. Magazines are paid for by advertisers, not subscribers. Magazine editors are very careful to not bite the hand that feeds them. It is very common to see an article one month in a magazine on part A, touting it as the best product since sliced cheese. The very next month, the same magazine will have an article on product B from company Z proclaiming it to be the next coming. Use your own brain and read between the lines. If the person selling the product can't explain in comprehensible English sentences why something works, you might consider looking elsewhere.
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Old 02/21/11, 05:12 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JEWPRA View Post
Very cool mustang, I couldn't believe it when I heard it was your new car. Way to roll on over to the dark side
Ironic how we switched roles.

Originally Posted by Kntmare View Post
Wow dude Quality Build!!!! Who did your tig welding and fabing? looks sweet!
Read the intro lol
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Old 02/21/11, 05:21 PM   #39 (permalink)
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that hood makes me want.
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Old 02/21/11, 06:06 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CHZBRGR View Post
that hood makes me want.
The hood really makes it look better
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Old 02/21/11, 06:23 PM   #41 (permalink)
 
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nice fab, really good aluminum welds almost as good as me jk

should of brought it out yesterday.
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Old 02/21/11, 06:49 PM   #42 (permalink)
 
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bring it back by the shop i never even got to take a ride in it after sean tuned it. im glad the alternator bullshit got worked out lol
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Old 02/21/11, 07:10 PM   #43 (permalink)
 
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Wow. Never saw that coming. Looks great!

So what's in store/What are your goals?

What does it weigh?
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Old 02/21/11, 07:35 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FAST View Post
nice fab, really good aluminum welds almost as good as me jk

should of brought it out yesterday.
I wanted to but it needs tires bad.

Originally Posted by 4sefed View Post
bring it back by the shop i never even got to take a ride in it after sean tuned it. im glad the alternator bullshit got worked out lol
Well if you wouldnt have gone home early on the dyno night you could have gotten a ride. I will bring it by for sure and take you for a ride.

Originally Posted by 92stroker View Post
Wow. Never saw that coming. Looks great!

So what's in store/What are your goals?

What does it weigh?
Me neither. Still needs auto trans, built rear, built motor etc. Not sure on weight yet but I completely removed most of the bs.
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Old 02/21/11, 07:46 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Creeper View Post
I have never seen damage to the torque boxes from heim or spherical UCA's before.
Maybe you need to get out more.

Nice build dude. +hp
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